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[JP]

Another question. 

Do you use the suspension joints that came with the Clayton's (9/16" bolt I believe) or is it an upgraded joint?

OK, I feel a little better now instead of killing Mitch's thread. You guys seem to be a good bunch of people.
I'll happily answer the questions you or anyone else may have. Adam (Paco), who just registered on this site and has chimed in with Jason might add to this as well.

My ZJ was Clayton's ZJ even before he started the company. He was looking to install a long arm kit onto it and nobody in the market, at that time, offered a long arm kit for the ZJ. He wanted one, so he fabbed one up.

The Johnny Joints under my ZJ are the same JJ's he used under the lifts he produces. The JJ has changed in the past few years and now they are forged with a Zerk fitting. So, his newer lifts have that new style. My JJ's are the original in that ZJ and have never been changed. Just before we headed out to Moab in 2006, the JJ's were broken down and all were fine, so I threw them back together and changed out the 9/16th bolts that had the Zerk's snapped off them. New rear lower arms were made, I have no use for adjustable rear arms since I cannot drive it down the road and the original JJ's were reused.

My JJ's are the originals, 2.5". They do have that 9/16th bolt with the Zerk fitting on the end that passes through the ball center. Why do you ask?

[Twisty]

I'm trying to decide what joints to use on my suspension build this summer.  the 2.5" JJs with a 9/16 bolt, or a Ballistic Fab joint 2.62" joint with a 5/8 through bolt.  Is a 9/16 enough to handle 1 tons and large tires behind a 4.0 (3 link with panhard), or is it better to get the 5/8 bolts?

[jps4jeep]

Ballistic.. their stuff is crazy, and they will stand behind their product.

[JP]

Is a 9/16 enough to handle 1 tons and large tires behind a 4.0 (3 link with panhard), or is it better to get the 5/8 bolts?

1st off, good luck with the build
I'm not familiar with the Ballistic stuff, I am with the JJ. I'm the only one in our group that utilizes the Dana 44. Everybody else is running 60's and a 14-bolt. Some of these guys compete and some just like a really stout rig to beat on. One thing I have learned in the era of the Internet, what anybody has is the best. No matter what it is, males have big ego's and their rigs should have even bigger ones. I hate pissing contests. Everybody wheels hard and everybody is the best. What I have learned, there are many stages of "HARD".

So, with that, we are not easy on our rigs. We abuse the snot out of them. If we are looking at a rock formation and we sit there and figure there is a 90-95% chance we're not going to make it, we go for it...it's that simple. Some of us are a little more daring than others, we're just out there to have fun and if we break, we break. That's the nature of the beast. I have the fortune to bring pics to you, because that's what I enjoy the most. I have no problem capturing my buddies rigs in action and I know pics don't do them justice, but at least you can have an idea when you see what we do and what the suspension goes through. From landing on the lower arms, slamming them up against things, the 9/16th bolt holds up just fine, never had a failure of that piece of hardware yet. Is anything bulletproof, no... If Clayton's stuff failed, he'd simply make the part that failed, stronger. What works has worked so far and is pretty well tested by himself and others that run his parts. The way Clayton's suspension is designed, that bolt holds up just fine. If the suspension system wasn't setup correctly and there is a lot of binding or the suspension is lose and sloppy, I'm sure over time that 9/16th bolt could break. But I have yet to see that bolt break.

Here are some pics, I hope you don't get bored with the shots and again, any questions...please fire away!!!! Any questions on the rigs you see, fire away. I'll give ya a quick spec run down on them.

http://www.youtube.com/v/7jOUcyOJyb8&rel;=1

Unfortunately I have to head out and help with the construction of a deck, when we're done later I'll be able to answer your questions.

All these rigs run that 2.5" JJ. (I don't know who that Rockwell rig was, he just happened to be at the trail we were on and hopped in and broke one of his shots)

The blue YJ..Dana 60's, Atlas, 37" Red Labels...4.0L
The Rubicon...Dana 60's, Atlas 5.1, 39.5" Reds....4.0L
The maroon single seater Dana 60's, Dana 300-32 spline output, twin sticked on 42" IROK's (Stickies), aluminum arms and the 4.3L Vortec Chebby motor
Clayton's buggy...Dana 60's, rear steer, 3.8 Atlas, aluminum lower arms, 39.5 Red's...4.0L

[bigdaddee]

Crazy cool tubbies JP.  Someday.........................

[Twisty]

Thats great JP, thanks for the write up, and video.  I enjoyed them.

The JJ appeals to me because of its forged shank, and the price.  The ballistic joint (http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/263-Heavy-Duty-Ballistic-Joint-w-Billet-stud_p_12-1227.html) is similar to the JJ, but more expensive and available in a 5/8 size. 

I did a little research on Pirate, and I was getting some mixed feedback about bolt sizes.  It seemed that many people were using the forged JJs with V8s and 1 tons, but they only come with the 9/16 bolt.  However many people were suggesting that using a 9/16 could be problematic and a 5/8 or 3/4 might better.  I know that 3/4 is way overkill for me, and I don't have $100+ to spend on EVO heims or 3" JJ or Ballistic joints. 

As of now I'm leaning heavily towards the Ballistic 2.63" or JJ 2.5" joint.  The JJ is $40 + tube adapter/jamb nut and the Ballistic joint is $50 + tube adapter/jamb nut.  I'm really going to be pinching pennies with this "build" and every $10 or $20 helps. 


Thanks for the feedback about the JJ, I appreciate it and also have a better picture of what kind of rigs depend on JJs.  I've been meaning to start a suspension joint thread...and I guess this is it.   

[jason m]

agin JP nice vid, wish i made that run. gregs buggy ( the maroon single seater ) is runing the 5/8 hardware in his joints. we got tired of bending 3/4X5/8 combo hiems and the ALU links allways seem to win. so all new tabs were made and smoked in.
whats adam going to do with the rubicon? i forgot to ask the other day when you two ( handsum bastards ) stopped buy to drop off the rockwell. its taking a good beating, i think its time for an overhall.

not going to make this saterday, shooting for the Toy-4-Tots on DEC 7th as long as kenny can make it. tell adam greg picked up the rear steer 60 and all the extra shafts ( adams and mine ) so get him the deminsions and he will head to mitchels.
jason.

[JP]

The JJ appeals to me because of its forged shank, and the price.  I've been meaning to start a suspension joint thread...and I guess this is it.   

Like I said, nobody's had any problem with the 2.5" JJ's. They hold up real well. I really wouldn't let this drive ya crazy

I passed on the info Jason, he'll be calling Greg tonight. Like I said, make a date you want to make a run out this way and let Adam know. The maroon buggy is using the 1" shank, but it still utilizes the 9/16th bolt through the JJ. Maybe some of these guys can come down and partake in the festivities I know we'll be able to get Clayton to head up, I'm sure he's itching to get out of the shop Find a time when it's good for you.

Twisty, you'll be better off with the Twisty Build Thread I'll be throwing some more pics up and the beginning of your build thread will be lost in these pages

[jason m]

ya i will find some time even if we do a snow run . i know we upgraded greg to the 1'' shank but is he still using the 9/16 bolts, i thought we did the 5/8 one's. i dont know i got lost in that build between who's doing the bending and what size nood to run, i got stuck with the welding.

was that the comp in may? i think it was and damm was that a cold weekend the wind never stopped on the hill.
jason.

[mika401]

Snow wheeling is one of the funnest types in my opinion.
Nice pics of Clayton, say him at the Fall Crawl and he's one hell of a driver.

[jon]

As always.  Opinions are like a$$holes everyone has one and they all stink.

I would choose the johnny joint for a few reasons.

1.  The threaded version is forged vs a weldment.  Forged is stronger as there are no gaps.  (I am sure they did not get full penetration on the weld.)  It also doesn't have the stress riser from the geometry of the weld or the heat affected zone.  Not to mention that forging is even stronger than if they cut it from a piece of billet.

2.  They are cheaper.

3.  No $30 special spanner to assemble. That ballistic did not even use the common decency to design as a standard size. although you may be able to find a 2 pin spanner that will work.  Yes you need snap ring pliers for the johnny joint but chances are you already have a pair to take care of your front axle.  I like multi use tools in my trail kit.

4.  Proven by people you know and have seen wheel  (or at least have friends that will vouch for them)

To add to the list that JP has and I will personally vouch they wheel like animals.  Hell most of those guys are even in Low Range article that vouches for it.


I have quite a few others to add to the list and they aren't nice to stuff.
Lucas Murphy
  - Bent all 4 2" diameter .250 wall lower links.  No problems with the Johnny Joints.  Lucas beats that rig like a rented mule.
TJ (Hooker) Florence
  - TJ use three of them in his traction bar.  If you have seen him wheel you know that ti does a LOT of work.

A 9/16" Grade 8 bolt is ridiculously strong.  Just make sure the holes are the right size.  Either make the mounting brackets nice and thick or weld washers next tot he holes. This will reduce the bearing stress and keep the hole from wallowing out. and make sure they are torqued properly.

[JP]

To add to the list that JP has and I will personally vouch they wheel like animals.  Hell most of those guys are even in Low Range article that vouches for it.

Why thank you Jon How have ya been? I haven't really been on these types of forums in awhile

[Twisty]

Thats great Jon!!  Very helpful. 

That photo sequence of Clayton would make a great .gif avatar.   Anyone want to make it for me?

[JP]

That photo sequence of Clayton would make a great .gif avatar.   Anyone want to make it for me?

I may be able to make that Gif for ya

[Twisty]

Next question...

I was fixing to get the 1.25" thread shank, because It seems like it would be the strongest available, and there doesn't seem to be a price difference over the 1" or .75".

So.....1.25"....1"... .75"?